The Balkans - FSU - Former Eastern Bloc Discussion
#1
This thread is a spin off of a discussion that started in the Q thread that I'm moving here as it didn't quite belong there.

I've expanded beyond the topic of the Balkans discussed there to include FSU (Former Soviet  Union) countries and former Eastern Bloc Countries as the discussion was mostly centered on the geopolitical tug of war between eastern and Western influences that seem to be ongoing.

Any discussion of the regions is welcome. Topics should extend beyond politics and extend to culture & food, etc...

I'll start things off by moving over & responding to some of those posts...

@snowglobe   @Hickory

Drinks
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#2
Quote:
snowglobe Wrote: Wrote:
(Today, 10:25 Wrote:
(Today, 09:28 AM)snowglobe Wrote: Wrote:[Image: collapse_collapsed.png]Spoiler
I am adding to the spoiler part so I will put it in a spoiler too.  [Image: popnana.gif]
[Image: collapse.png]Spoiler
The MIC is ramping up to get the war fronts going again in the Middle East and possibly the Ukraine or the Balkans. This will ship more military out of the US and keep any from coming home.

If there is a plan to do anything, they certainly need to get a move on.

@snowglobe   I'm curious why you speculate (possible) US MIL shenanigans in the Balkans. Middle East & Ukraine I can understand as the DS has established agendas there.

Now that the left is back in power they are fast forwarding back to the agenda that was in progress before Trump interrupted them. Well into Trumps presidency it was expected that the Balkans was going to be the next area to break out into war.

Last year there was a creative intervention by Grenell and team to intervene which appeared to set the Balkans in a better direction. There is no reason to expect that the area will not return to a tinderbox and a key player in the movement of human trafficked victims.

@snowglobe  Thanks for the response!

The reason I asked is because I have recently done some light research on the region. My original purpose was to look at modern examples of civil war and what if anything could be applied to the current situation in the US. Of course that lead to looking into the history and present day political situations.

My take away, is that since the "balkanization" of the former Yugoslavia, the region has greatly stabilized. Just like many of the former states of the USSR (FSU), there are still some growing pains as they create independent political and economic systems.

NOTE: Yugoslavia was not part of the USSR, but was more like a satellite state that aligned politically (communist).

The dispute between Serbia & Kosovo seems to be the most significant remaining "conflict" in the region. Kosovo has declared it's independence from Serbia and Serbia has resisted. Historically, Kosovo was an "autonomous" province of Serbia which is different from other (former Yugoslav) states that were previously recognized Republics. Kosovo's independence has been recognized internationally and I think Serbia is yielding. Like other now independent states of the region, new boarders were established by making compromises between historic boundaries and ethnicity of the current population, and to a lesser degree giving consideration to religion and language. I believe that there is only a relatively small disputed region that is ethnically Serbian, while the majority of Kosovo is ethnic Albanian.

Note: Vojvodina is the only other "autonomous" Province of Serbia and for the time being it seems to be content to remain a part of Serbia as it has an ethnic Serbian majority.

The only other spat I'm aware of in the region is a minor dispute between Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina. This relates to a bridge being built by Croatia from the mainland to a peninsula to bypass a section of Adriatic coastline that is part of Bosnia Herzegovina and separates a small portion Croatia (Southern Dalmatia) from the rest of the country. Although the bridge is designed to height standards to allow for shipping, Bosnia Herzegovina claims the bridge will limit its ability to develop & maintain it's only shipping port.   [Image: 1dunno1.gif]

Like FSU countries, there is a rush for influence over the region by the EU & China, and to a lesser degree the US. Most of the states have one foot in the EU for the purpose of trade, but are not eager (willing?) to go all in and relinquish control to Brussels, being so recently being removed from centralized control. It seems they are content to remain self determinate independent states, but are willing to create mutually beneficial relationships globally.

In regards to Human Trafficking, I think we have all learned how much it is a global problem! I think that like FSU countries, the Balkan States are subject to be victimized as a "product" source for Human Trafficking. The poor economic conditions make many young people eager to relocate to other countries for better opportunities. This opens doors for those with bad intentions. Just like the drug trade, it is the consumer end that is the real problem! If there is demand, there are people evil enough to work the supply end!

There's my "in a nut shell" take on the status of the Balkans....    [Image: wink.gif]
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#3
Things are NEVER what they seem....
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#4
I forgot I was going to list the countries to help the discussion along...

The Balkan Countries:

Slovenia
Croatia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Monte Negro
Kosovo
Serbia
Macedonia
~All of the above were formerly inclusive of Yugoslavia~
Albania
Romania
Bulgaria
~The Following are Technically Geographically part of the Balkan Peninsula, but lets leave them out of discussion unless it relates to the broader topic of the region~ 
Greece
Portions of Turkey
Portions of Italy

Former Soviet Union Countries (FSU):
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Russia
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

Former Eastern Bloc Countries: 
East Germany
Eastern Austria
Poland
Czech Republic - Formerly Czechoslovakia
Slovakia - Formerly Czechoslovakia
Hungary
~Also Included the Balkan Counties listed Above~
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#5
Quote:snowglobe

Indeed, the Balkans are a complicated area and this is not the thread to go into it.  Heartflowers

The root of the problems is traced back to the 1300's. The Turkish Muslims invaded. Until then the Christian Serbians had stood against the Ottoman empire and had protected all of Europe from being overwhelmed. The battle continues to this day.

If you are interested in this aspect I will put videos under a spoiler.


[spoiler]War against Orthodox Church turns towards Serbia and Montenegro



Russian Report From The Last European Apartheid - Kosovo - Where Albanian Regime Terrorizes Serbs



@snowglobe The first video above describes the situation more as a War within the Orthodox Church than against the Orthodox Church. It also says there's a similar "schism" taking place in Ukraine against the Russian Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church remains, they just want to remove the control and influence of the Serbians (in Kosovo) & the Russians (in Ukraine).

According to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo

Kosovo is 88% ethnic Albanian and 7% ethnic Serbian. 95.6% Muslim and 3.7% Christian, which breaks down further to 2.2% Catholic and 1.5% Eastern Orthodox.

Is it a war on Christianity?  1dunno1  Is is just an extension of ethnic conflict?   1dunno1   Is there outside influence?    1dunno1

Over all, in the former Yugoslavia, it was the Serbians that had the ethnic majority at 36.3% and wielded the most political power. I don't want to get into who's the good guy & who's the bad guy, but without a doubt, it was the Serbians that wanted to maintain the status quo in Yugoslavia and wanted to prevent the other ethnic & religious groups from establishing independence.
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#6
Quote:Hickory

VERY good analysis!
I think there is a possibility of another thorn in the Balkans' flesh ... oil!
It's not oil in the ground, but oil traveling through there in pipelines.
Think "Follow the Money"!

Focus on Turkey and Syria~ Their recent conflicts are NOT over ethnic differences or any such nonsense (no matter what MSM says), but it is over the pipeline being constructed and who will make the most money off of it, right? It is a matter of the pipeline enabling prices to GO DOWN at its final destination and the Cabal doesn't want lower gas prices! It's the Cabal (Turkey) vs Russia (Syria)! After the pipeline goes through Turkey, where will it go before it gets to Europe? The Balkans!

Conflicts which slow or stop the progress of the pipeline keeps the price of oil higher (high demand and low supply) and delays the drop in prices due to availability (same demand but greater supply). So will the pipeline go through Serbia (Ethnically Russian) or Croatia (Ethnically German [EU]), or are there even greater issues?

Edit: Russia has even more at stake since they have re-opened their Baltic Sea pipeline once again now that Obiden is in office. A new pipeline (source of oil) will drop the price they are claiming from the existing Baltic pipeline. So which way are they REALLY leaning, now that the landscape has changed?


@Hickory  Interesting question about the Syrian oil! I guess the answer depends on where the pipeline would terminate. Syria is on the Mediterranean, so it has  access via Tanker Ship to most of Western Europe, most of the Western Balkans via the Adriatic, and to Ukraine via the Black Sea (unless Russia Blockades?). Where does that leave as an option for termination if it does go beyond Turkey? Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Austria?    1dunno1  No matter the destination, I think Bulgaria to Romania to Hungary to ? would be the likely route.   1dunno1

I have to correct you though on the bit bolded above. Serbia although still politically aligned with Russia (mostly, I think?) is ethnically Serbian (majority) and Croatia is majority ethnic Croatian (Croat). 

I think you may have been trying to infer a relationship between ethnicity and genetic influence of past empires which of course did occur. Going back 2000 years or so, the region was influenced wholly or partially by the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Venetian Empire and the Austro Hungarian Empire.
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#7
What does most of the topic countries have in common?

Slavic People.

Slavs are a European ethno-linguistic group of people who speak the various Slavic languages of the larger Balto-Slavic linguistic group of the Indo-European languages. They are native to Eurasia, stretching from CentralEastern and Southeastern Europe all the way north and eastwards to Northeast EuropeNorthern Asia (Siberia) and Central Asia (especially Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan), as well as historically in Western Europe (particularly in Eastern Germany) and Western Asia (including Anatolia). From the early 6th century they spread to inhabit most of Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. Today, there is a large Slavic diaspora throughout North America, particularly in the United States and Canada as a result of immigration.[1]
Slavs are the largest ethno-linguistic group in Europe.[2][3] Present-day Slavic people are classified into East Slavs (chiefly BelarusiansRussiansRusyns, and Ukrainians), West Slavs (chiefly CzechsKashubsPolesSlovaks, and Sorbs) and South Slavs (chiefly BosniaksBulgariansCroatsMacedoniansMontenegrinsSerbs and Slovenes).[4][5][6][7]
Most Slavs are traditionally Christians. Eastern Orthodox Christianity, first introduced by missionaries from the Byzantine empire, is practiced by the majority of Slavs. The Orthodox Slavs include the BelarusiansBulgariansMacedoniansMontenegrinsRussiansSerbs, and Ukrainians and are defined by Orthodox customs and Cyrillic script (Montenegrins and Serbs also use Latin script on equal terms).
The second most common type of Christianity among the Slavs is Catholicism, introduced by Latin-speaking missionaries from Western Europe. The Catholic Slavs include CroatsCzechsKashubsPolesSilesiansSlovaksSlovenes and Sorbs and are defined by their Latinate influence and heritage and connection to Western Europe. Millions of Slavs also belong to Greek Catholic churches—that is, historically Orthodox communities that are now in visible unity with Rome and the Catholic Church, but which retain Byzantine practices, such as the Rusyns. There are also substantial Protestant, in particular Lutheran, minorities, especially among the West Slavs, such as the historical Bohemian (Czech) Hussites.
A small number of Slavic ethnic groups traditionally adhere to IslamMuslim Slavs include the BosniaksPomaks (Bulgarian Muslims), GoraniTorbeši (Macedonian Muslims) and other Muslims of the former Yugoslavia.
Modern Slavic nations and ethnic groups are considerably diverse both genetically and culturally, and relations between them – even within the individual groups – range from "ethnic solidarity to mutual feelings of hostility".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs

Do I need to start posting pics of hot Slavic girls for this thread to get some traction?   Chuckle

[Image: beautiful_slavic_girls_youll_definitely_...640_46.jpg]
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#8
As I mentioned previously, I initially looked into the Balkans and more specifically the former Yugoslavia as a modern example of civil war.

Here is a good video that does a brief partial history and gives a good overview of the Yugoslav wars.  16 mins.

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#9
@snowglobe  , I know there is someone on this board that is Orthodox Christian. Is it you? Or, is your interest just in the ongoing (eternal) war between Islam & Christianity?
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#10
(03-11-2021, 08:53 PM)=42 Wrote:
@snowglobe The first video above describes the situation more as a War within the Orthodox Church than against the Orthodox Church. It also says there's a similar "schism" taking place in Ukraine against the Russian Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church remains, they just want to remove the control and influence of the Serbians (in Kosovo) & the Russians (in Ukraine).

According to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo

Kosovo is 88% ethnic Albanian and 7% ethnic Serbian. 95.6% Muslim and 3.7% Christian, which breaks down further to 2.2% Catholic and 1.5% Eastern Orthodox.

Is it a war on Christianity?  1dunno1  Is is just an extension of ethnic conflict?   1dunno1   Is there outside influence?    1dunno1

Over all, in the former Yugoslavia, it was the Serbians that had the ethnic majority at 36.3% and wielded the most political power. I don't want to get into who's the good guy & who's the bad guy, but without a doubt, it was the Serbians that wanted to maintain the status quo in Yugoslavia and wanted to prevent the other ethnic & religious groups from establishing independence.

Most situations are very difficult (if not impossible) to understand from the outside. As an outsider I have looked into certain things to discover certain things for myself and that is all that I have to share.

Let's take an imaginary country as an example. The country has a long deep history where the people have worked hard to live full and purposeful lives and to have respect for their neighbors but preserve their country and heritage for their children.

The neighboring country also has a long deep history and heritage but has a different belief system than them, but what they do in their own country is their own business and both countries can live in peace.

There are a couple of small problems though. The neighbor believes in having multiple wives and having as many children as possible from each of them. It is expected that a plot of land will be left for each of the children to begin to farm for their own family. Before many generations pass they are starting to get a little crowded. Another little issue with the neighbors belief system is that they believe that they are to possess the entire world in the name of their god and to kill or enslave anyone who does not serve their god.

The neighbors with their many children are able to put together armies in an alarming rate because by their belief system each man should have at least two women pregnant at a time.

It starts small. Children are sent from the second country to help with the harvest in the first country and are paid with crops to help feed their large family back home. Little by little a few of them move into the first country to open a shop or to be more available for work. Soon they move in their cousins and uncles who are followed by many pregnant women. Before much time passes they form their own communities and then want to declare an area as their territory. Next they want their independents in the country that they are now usurping and enlarging their home country by doing so.

Before long the first country realizes what is happening and do not want their country divided up and their children's inheritance being given to immigrants. They begin to fight back.

The next thing you know the global media starts saying that the original citizens of the country are oppressing the usurpers. In the end NATO waited until the highest Christian holiday to send in the bombers. Clinton led the bombing of Yugoslavia on Easter Sunday.

This is not the only country that this has happened in. Now we watch as this happens in Europe, Canada and the United States. Heartflowers
The Truth is learned, never told.
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