Quitting Smoking
#21
(04-06-2021, 01:18 PM)Arkan_Ted Wrote: There is always this option. I'm not making a joke. You can go anywhere and nobody will know. I mean this not as a advert. Please delete if it pushes that boundary.
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There is also a product called ZYN, which my nephew-in-law uses.

Welcome to ZYN.com
Discover fresh nicotine satisfaction, with ZYN Tobacco-Free Nicotine Pouches.

https://us.zyn.com/
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven.  ~ Matthew 5:16 

Pray without ceasing, for President Trump and for our Constitutional Republic.  
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#22
(04-06-2021, 01:28 PM)PickleSnout Wrote: If she won't even try, it may be because after many moons of being with a Narc, she is unwilling to risk more hurt 'hoping' for change while someone tries to map their own minefield.
There comes a moment of self preservation.
I am not saying she is right or wrong, just having a perspective of the other side of the coin.

Kudos To you for even allowing the idea of 'there might be something wrong with me' into your pervue.
For a Narc, that occurance is incredibly low. Blaming others goes back to avoiding responsibility for their own actions which is far more common. Relationships are very notorious for assigning blame or responsibility in any case - It takes two, right?
Yet with Narcs it takes one to call the shots, and one to capitulate then get blamed when they will no longer play along.

That problem is way worse than the smoking! It is a pile of spaghetti you are trying to unravel.

Either one of those issues is difficult. Both together...an endurance race!

Doubling down on the well wishes.

Yeah, to clarify, she is the Narc at the moment and the consistency of it from the beginning of the relationship is far greater than the moments of me using a temporary Narc mask to survive.  It is so bad that she has yet to acknowledge it one bit, while I have outright owned it on my part.  I only began to see all of this when I tried to take all the blame and responsibility upon myself and it just wouldn't add up.  I was forced to acknowledge what she really is instead of the illusion I had been projecting upon her and lying to myself about.

If she isn't willing to try, it means she has been cheating and knows that there is no way to keep lying about that and that divorce is certain and will not be delayed for her convenience.
If not already literally cheating, then at least pursuing the idea and planning for it.  Contacting old flames, etc...    I am almost sure it is at least that and I don't know how much is too much for me to be able to forgive.  One of the reasons I think that is it is because of how suddenly this came up and how she said that there are all these "triggers" from being around each other...  Yeah, those are called guilty memories, not triggers.  Me being nice reminds her of how shitty she treated me, thus the only answer is to run away and not discuss why.  She can't find words because there aren't any that justify it.  It's not about something I need to change, its that she knows she would have to change as well.

For the first time last night she finally acknowledged that her response to my questions was devoid of any actual information and instead just a long attack on the way I asked the questions.  That is the hardest hump to get over with a Narc.  They are continuously defending and justifying their feelings while deflecting you from identifying that fact or uncovering the motivations or appropriateness of those feelings.  They are unable to understand the consequences of their actions on how you feel or to assign any value to it that comes any where close to the value they have for their own feelings.  When I said "do you see that none of that was addressing the issue and was instead an attack on how I am presenting it?" for the first time ever I could see her replaying it and then she said "yeah, I guess you're right."  So I ended that talk right there to let the idea sink in before going any further.  That one moment was more valuable to moving forward than any in the past weeks.  If we could ever talk about what we are trying to talk about instead of deflect or blame the process, I know we could move forward.   I just have the sinking and unshakeable feeling that there is something being hidden under the denials of infidelity.  She is going to have to face the reality that cheating isn't just about penetration and acknowledge that she has been a social/emotional cheater at the very least. The Marriage Builders site I posted earlier makes this very easy to identify and I recommend it to anyone, even if your marriage is going well.  The things it talks about are how to keep a good marriage going or make it better as much as to save one that is in trouble.
It takes both partners to make it work though. 

This is going to be a last chance scenario for me.  If she won't or can't at least discuss this material and adapt at least some of it to our lives, I will insist on a no contact separation.  It will be difficult though, while we don't have kids, we do have multiple pets that we are both very close to and that need a house with a backyard and high fences.  She would have to move to an apt and we would have to figure out how to split the debts and assets without selling this house.  I wouldn't be able to stand being around her long enough to find a new house or houses and sell this one.  Would the pets all stay together or have to be split up, what about visitation, etc...  Its a freaking nightmare of spaghetti.  So hopefully this can help her understand her own feelings about what she thinks is missing or broken.  I might be surprised at what it reveals, but I don't think so.  I think she will be the one shocked at her own feelings and level of responsibility for them once she sees them on paper and contrasted with mine.  Everyone wants to blame the guy in these scenarios and I think that is a terrible detriment that has hidden the reality from many couples.
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. 
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#23
(04-06-2021, 02:26 PM)DeadpoolLovesYou Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 01:28 PM)PickleSnout Wrote: If she won't even try, it may be because after many moons of being with a Narc, she is unwilling to risk more hurt 'hoping' for change while someone tries to map their own minefield.
There comes a moment of self preservation.
I am not saying she is right or wrong, just having a perspective of the other side of the coin.

Kudos To you for even allowing the idea of 'there might be something wrong with me' into your pervue.
For a Narc, that occurance is incredibly low. Blaming others goes back to avoiding responsibility for their own actions which is far more common. Relationships are very notorious for assigning blame or responsibility in any case - It takes two, right?
Yet with Narcs it takes one to call the shots, and one to capitulate then get blamed when they will no longer play along.

That problem is way worse than the smoking! It is a pile of spaghetti you are trying to unravel.

Either one of those issues is difficult. Both together...an endurance race!

Doubling down on the well wishes.

Yeah, to clarify, she is the Narc at the moment and the consistency of it from the beginning of the relationship is far greater than the moments of me using a temporary Narc mask to survive.  It is so bad that she has yet to acknowledge it one bit, while I have outright owned it on my part.  I only began to see all of this when I tried to take all the blame and responsibility upon myself and it just wouldn't add up.  I was forced to acknowledge what she really is instead of the illusion I had been projecting upon her and lying to myself about.

If she isn't willing to try, it means she has been cheating and knows that there is no way to keep lying about that and that divorce is certain and will not be delayed for her convenience.
If not already literally cheating, then at least pursuing the idea and planning for it.  Contacting old flames, etc...    I am almost sure it is at least that and I don't know how much is too much for me to be able to forgive.  One of the reasons I think that is it is because of how suddenly this came up and how she said that there are all these "triggers" from being around each other...  Yeah, those are called guilty memories, not triggers.  Me being nice reminds her of how shitty she treated me, thus the only answer is to run away and not discuss why.  She can't find words because there aren't any that justify it.  It's not about something I need to change, its that she knows she would have to change as well.

For the first time last night she finally acknowledged that her response to my questions was devoid of any actual information and instead just a long attack on the way I asked the questions.  That is the hardest hump to get over with a Narc.  They are continuously defending and justifying their feelings while deflecting you from identifying that fact or uncovering the motivations or appropriateness of those feelings.  They are unable to understand the consequences of their actions on how you feel or to assign any value to it that comes any where close to the value they have for their own feelings.  When I said "do you see that none of that was addressing the issue and was instead an attack on how I am presenting it?" for the first time ever I could see her replaying it and then she said "yeah, I guess you're right."  So I ended that talk right there to let the idea sink in before going any further.  That one moment was more valuable to moving forward than any in the past weeks.  If we could ever talk about what we are trying to talk about instead of deflect or blame the process, I know we could move forward.   I just have the sinking and unshakeable feeling that there is something being hidden under the denials of infidelity.  She is going to have to face the reality that cheating isn't just about penetration and acknowledge that she has been a social/emotional cheater at the very least. The Marriage Builders site I posted earlier makes this very easy to identify and I recommend it to anyone, even if your marriage is going well.  The things it talks about are how to keep a good marriage going or make it better as much as to save one that is in trouble.
It takes both partners to make it work though. 

This is going to be a last chance scenario for me.  If she won't or can't at least discuss this material and adapt at least some of it to our lives, I will insist on a no contact separation.  It will be difficult though, while we don't have kids, we do have multiple pets that we are both very close to and that need a house with a backyard and high fences.  She would have to move to an apt and we would have to figure out how to split the debts and assets without selling this house.  I wouldn't be able to stand being around her long enough to find a new house or houses and sell this one.  Would the pets all stay together or have to be split up, what about visitation, etc...  Its a freaking nightmare of spaghetti.  So hopefully this can help her understand her own feelings about what she thinks is missing or broken.  I might be surprised at what it reveals, but I don't think so.  I think she will be the one shocked at her own feelings and level of responsibility for them once she sees them on paper and contrasted with mine.  Everyone wants to blame the guy in these scenarios and I think that is a terrible detriment that has hidden the reality from many couples.

Yikes; sorry...I kind of just read the first half of your first post and missed all of this stuff.
after 26 years....maybe you've both just grown apart?
I will say that just because someone is saying they want a divorce doesn't mean that they're cheating...there could be a ton of reasons...
it can also sometimes be a icebreaker to fixing what is going on; or maybe a good break would be good to see how you guys feel without eachother.
"you never miss what you have until it's gone" you know the deal.
Sorry you're going thru so much; quitting smoking during all of that would be super sucky.
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#24
(04-06-2021, 01:45 PM)FlyoverCountry Wrote: Also, divorce is traumatic.  Wrong or right i decided I'd never put myself in that situation again.   

I'll miss out on some of the great parts of being in a relationship but I'll also avoid all the pain and disappointment that always follows.
Same.
Enough hurt for one lifetime.
Life is great every day now!
Plenty of room for interests, plenty of money, dog and God for company.
Heartflowers
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#25
(04-06-2021, 02:26 PM)DeadpoolLovesYou Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 01:28 PM)PickleSnout Wrote: If she won't even try, it may be because after many moons of being with a Narc, she is unwilling to risk more hurt 'hoping' for change while someone tries to map their own minefield.
There comes a moment of self preservation.
I am not saying she is right or wrong, just having a perspective of the other side of the coin.

Kudos To you for even allowing the idea of 'there might be something wrong with me' into your pervue.
For a Narc, that occurance is incredibly low. Blaming others goes back to avoiding responsibility for their own actions which is far more common. Relationships are very notorious for assigning blame or responsibility in any case - It takes two, right?
Yet with Narcs it takes one to call the shots, and one to capitulate then get blamed when they will no longer play along.

That problem is way worse than the smoking! It is a pile of spaghetti you are trying to unravel.

Either one of those issues is difficult. Both together...an endurance race!

Doubling down on the well wishes.

Yeah, to clarify, she is the Narc at the moment and the consistency of it from the beginning of the relationship is far greater than the moments of me using a temporary Narc mask to survive.  It is so bad that she has yet to acknowledge it one bit, while I have outright owned it on my part.  I only began to see all of this when I tried to take all the blame and responsibility upon myself and it just wouldn't add up.  I was forced to acknowledge what she really is instead of the illusion I had been projecting upon her and lying to myself about.

If she isn't willing to try, it means she has been cheating and knows that there is no way to keep lying about that and that divorce is certain and will not be delayed for her convenience.
If not already literally cheating, then at least pursuing the idea and planning for it.  Contacting old flames, etc...    I am almost sure it is at least that and I don't know how much is too much for me to be able to forgive.  One of the reasons I think that is it is because of how suddenly this came up and how she said that there are all these "triggers" from being around each other...  Yeah, those are called guilty memories, not triggers.  Me being nice reminds her of how shitty she treated me, thus the only answer is to run away and not discuss why.  She can't find words because there aren't any that justify it.  It's not about something I need to change, its that she knows she would have to change as well.

For the first time last night she finally acknowledged that her response to my questions was devoid of any actual information and instead just a long attack on the way I asked the questions.  That is the hardest hump to get over with a Narc.  They are continuously defending and justifying their feelings while deflecting you from identifying that fact or uncovering the motivations or appropriateness of those feelings.  They are unable to understand the consequences of their actions on how you feel or to assign any value to it that comes any where close to the value they have for their own feelings.  When I said "do you see that none of that was addressing the issue and was instead an attack on how I am presenting it?" for the first time ever I could see her replaying it and then she said "yeah, I guess you're right."  So I ended that talk right there to let the idea sink in before going any further.  That one moment was more valuable to moving forward than any in the past weeks.  If we could ever talk about what we are trying to talk about instead of deflect or blame the process, I know we could move forward.   I just have the sinking and unshakeable feeling that there is something being hidden under the denials of infidelity.  She is going to have to face the reality that cheating isn't just about penetration and acknowledge that she has been a social/emotional cheater at the very least. The Marriage Builders site I posted earlier makes this very easy to identify and I recommend it to anyone, even if your marriage is going well.  The things it talks about are how to keep a good marriage going or make it better as much as to save one that is in trouble.
It takes both partners to make it work though. 

This is going to be a last chance scenario for me.  If she won't or can't at least discuss this material and adapt at least some of it to our lives, I will insist on a no contact separation.  It will be difficult though, while we don't have kids, we do have multiple pets that we are both very close to and that need a house with a backyard and high fences.  She would have to move to an apt and we would have to figure out how to split the debts and assets without selling this house.  I wouldn't be able to stand being around her long enough to find a new house or houses and sell this one.  Would the pets all stay together or have to be split up, what about visitation, etc...  Its a freaking nightmare of spaghetti.  So hopefully this can help her understand her own feelings about what she thinks is missing or broken.  I might be surprised at what it reveals, but I don't think so.  I think she will be the one shocked at her own feelings and level of responsibility for them once she sees them on paper and contrasted with mine.  Everyone wants to blame the guy in these scenarios and I think that is a terrible detriment that has hidden the reality from many couples.

That makes more sense to me, you were coping to survive, and the Narc never really admits anything. Usually that is more how it is.
I am sorry you are going through it.
Heartflowers
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#26
(04-06-2021, 02:35 AM)PickleSnout Wrote: Cold turkey worked for me.
Two weeks of deep frowns and balled fists, and the nagging urge passed.
One month for the occasional urge, and then I was free.
It has been many years, and the occasional (less than 1 monthly) cigar or pipe does not trigger the cigarette habit. I would not say to take up pipe or cigar right away- you might replace one habit with another. What I mean to convey is you can still enjoy ocassional tobacco later in life, without the expensive health damaging ciggarette issues.

Good luck on your path.
"you might replace one habit with another" Maybe. But that's the point. 

I've gifted pipes to two friends and sold one to an acquaintance [because he's a bludger  Slap ] and spoken to many others on-line who got off cigarettes by switching to a pipe. 
My two mates and most of those on-line have successfully quit smoking altogether after using the pipe to address cravings. 
Pipe tobacco, generally speaking, has way less nicotine than cigarettes so a pipe is basically a placebo. 

Those who quit entirely after switching to a pipe found that they smoked less and less over time until they got to the point where they realised they went an entire day without a puff. Switching to a pipe was a much gentler transition to complete abstinence than going cold turkey.

Here's the thing; all it takes for many, if not most ex-cig smokers, to fall off the wagon is just one cigarette. [That happened to me time after time] 
That doesn't happen with a pipe which scratches the itch in the moment. 

Some of us are just hard-wired to smoke.  1dunno1 I'm one of them. 
Despite being an inhaler, the improvement in my health has been remarkable since switching to the pipe. 

Smoking a pipe is by far the lesser evil than cigarettes because there's no added chemicals. 

Cigars on the other hand; although I've enjoyed a good cigar regularly since 18yo, I gifted my stash to mates after switching to a pipe because I could easily see myself getting hooked on those due to the higher nicotine.  
None-the-less, cigars are a far better alternative to cigarettes because they also have no nasty added chems. 

The comedian George Burns was asked in an interview what did his doctor think of his cigar habit when in his 90's. 
Burns said "I wouldn't know, he's dead."  Chuckle   George smoked his stogie's right up to his death at 100yo.
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#27
(04-06-2021, 03:04 AM)-RG- Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 02:35 AM)PickleSnout Wrote: Cold turkey worked for me.
Two weeks of deep frowns and balled fists, and the nagging urge passed.
One month for the occasional urge, and then I was free.
It has been many years, and the occasional (less than 1 monthly) cigar or pipe does not trigger the cigarette habit. I would not say to take up pipe or cigar right away- you might replace one habit with another. What I mean to convey is you can still enjoy ocassional tobacco later in life, without the expensive health damaging ciggarette issues.

Good luck on your path.

I wish I could do vapes to kick this nasty 20 year habit.

Vapes make me hack, cough and regret I took a drag. People have told me maybe is the nicotine level.

Ha!  bitch please, I burn 2 packs a day.  40 fucking smokes. 

How is nicotine levels in a vape causing me issues?

It's supposed to be "healthier" so why the fuck does it cause me to hack up a lung every time I take a drag??
G'day @-RG-  Drinks 

A vape didn't work for me [I puff too hard and kept getting liquid in my mouth - probably because it was a cheap vaporiser  1dunno1  ] but they are an excellent alternative for many ex-cigarette smokers. 

For 35 years I smoked cigarettes and was smoking 30-40 a day. [The longer one smokes the more one smokes] 
After many failed quit attempts [the longest I abstained was six months when using Champix - it worked really well at taking away the cravings but it messed with my head big time] but when stressed or depression hit I'd reach for a ciggie and all that hard work went out the window. 

It got to a point where I didn't think I'd ever get off the bloody things. 
Switching to a pipe was a last resort. It worked for me because at least a puff on a pipe was better than nothing. 
Transitioning was so easy compared to going cold turkey.  

If one is able to quit cold turkey then more power to them but because I used smoking as a means to cope, going cold turkey just made me miserable. 
Although it was my intention to eventually quit altogether, after doing a heap of research I realised that tobacco is not as bad as the shrieking anti-smoking brigade would have us believe. 
Many Amish men smoke a pipe. They don't have any problem with smoking related disease because they smoke homegrown baccy. 

There's plenty of mild pipe tobacco blends that wont make you 'hack up a lung'. [I'm puffing on MacBaren Vanilla Cream as we speak. Delicious stuff] 

Good luck getting off the lung busters whichever way you choose.  Drinks
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#28
(04-06-2021, 01:45 PM)FlyoverCountry Wrote: Also, divorce is traumatic.  Wrong or right i decided I'd never put myself in that situation again.   

I'll miss out on some of the great parts of being in a relationship but I'll also avoid all the pain and disappointment that always follows.
Your words should be carved in stone for all to read thru time.
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#29
(04-06-2021, 06:43 AM)K1ll_R06U3 Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 03:04 AM)-RG- Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 02:35 AM)PickleSnout Wrote: Cold turkey worked for me.
Two weeks of deep frowns and balled fists, and the nagging urge passed.
One month for the occasional urge, and then I was free.
It has been many years, and the occasional (less than 1 monthly) cigar or pipe does not trigger the cigarette habit. I would not say to take up pipe or cigar right away- you might replace one habit with another. What I mean to convey is you can still enjoy ocassional tobacco later in life, without the expensive health damaging ciggarette issues.

Good luck on your path.

I wish I could do vapes to kick this nasty 20 year habit.

Vapes make me hack, cough and regret I took a drag. People have told me maybe is the nicotine level.

Ha!  bitch please, I burn 2 packs a day.  40 fucking smokes. 

How is nicotine levels in a vape causing me issues?

It's supposed to be "healthier" so why the fuck does it cause me to hack up a lung every time I take a drag??

Vaping does the same to me. Cough my lungs out. I smoke rolled chop chop, home grown tobacco. Smoking 41 years. Generally pretty fit with no breathing issues. Filtered cancer sticks you have to stay away from. Loads more chemicals.
My research revealed that tailor-made cigarettes have a staggering 300-600 added chemicals, some of which are addictive. 
This is why cig smokers are not satisfied by a RYO. [I've not been able to find exactly what chems are added to RYO tobacco but suspect that it's minimal, if any] 

Someone also mentioned here recently that the filters themselves are a problem.  1dunno1   

What type of tobacco do you grow, Burley or Virginia? 
This year I didn't get a crop in due to my arm being messed up from the Red-back spider bite but I've got several pound of Burley stashed from previous years. 
It's a touch too high in nicotine so I'll steam it to make Cavendish. 
Hopefully I'll be able to find some Virginia seeds for next years grow season.
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#30
(04-06-2021, 05:15 PM)PickleSnout Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 01:45 PM)FlyoverCountry Wrote: Also, divorce is traumatic.  Wrong or right i decided I'd never put myself in that situation again.   

I'll miss out on some of the great parts of being in a relationship but I'll also avoid all the pain and disappointment that always follows.
Same.
Enough hurt for one lifetime.
Life is great every day now!
Plenty of room for interests, plenty of money, dog and God for company.
It's pretty amazing where your mind wanders when you have the quiet time to really contemplate important things rather than explain why your socks are on the living room floor. 

Chuckle
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